European Stars and Stripes (Newspaper) - November 22, 1992, Darmstadt, Hesse                                Donahue does the talking during 25th anniversary by Jane Hall los Angeles times Twenty five years ago this month Phil Donahue booked atheist Madalyn Murray of hair As his first guest on a local talk show in Dayton Ohio and began a revolution in daytime television. Making the studio audience a key element in the show and booking guests on subjects from abortion to the Vietnam War Donahue a former radio news producer showed that the largely female audience As he put it was interested in a lot More than a covered dishes and  although Oprah Winfrey has taken Over As the highest rated daytime talk show Host Donahue still holds the no. 2 Slot ahead of a variety of competitors from Sally Jessy Raphael to Montel Williams. He was the subject of a two hour special that was broadcast on Abc last sunday. Donahue 57, whose contract runs through the end of 1992, gained attention during the presidential Campaign this year with aggressive interviewing of the candidates and on one show was criticized by a member of his audience for Quot attacking Bill Clinton a character. The following is a los Angeles times interview with Donahue question How did you feet when the woman in the audience stood up and attacked you for attacking Clinton on the Gennifer Flowers question when As the audience member said there were so Many other important issues facing the country answer i done to like to be booed and i done to like being criticized. She was very Lucid in her criticism. But if i had it to do again i d do the same thing. The entire press corps was Frozen in place on the Issue of Gennifer Flowers and a Rumor of infidelity involving president Bush the Issue is not that the press decides whether infidelity is a determining Factor in the voters minds. The Issue is that the press has a responsibility to probe the candidate s character and let the voters decide. Q but it was the audience that booed you. A Well its been a rough year for the press. Nobody likes us. Q do you consider yourself a member of the press a that san interesting argument. Am 1 journalist am i not a journalist first talk show hosts weren to journalists. Then we weren to considered serious journalists. The mainstream journalists looked Down on talk show people and said in a very condescending Way a a we re the news not  president Reagan pretty much stiff armed the Media during his administration. These mainstream people Are the ones who missed Iran scam missed the savings and loan crisis missed Bocci. And these arc the same people saying Quot you re not the news and you done to know How to ask follow up questions q what role do you think the talk shows played in this Campaign a according to several exit polls that i saw seeing the candidates on talk shows was said to be one of the most important factors in Peoples minds. Politics is one of my favorite subjects a the staff knows that i wish we could do it just about every Day. I think this is a very exciting trend. In earlier campaigns we asked both Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis to come on the show before 10 million viewers and they would Teven though they were behind. I think they thought it was not presidential. I think the Clinton Gore Campaign took the choke hold of the presidential process away from the evening newscasts and brought it Down to a saxophone gig on a late night talk show Arsinio Hal followed by a very Good interview with an african american personality who sat the Center of popular culture. In a not saying talk shows should replace meet the press or face the nation a we should be additions to these venues. Q when you began doing your first show in Ohio How did you hit on the idea of covering a lot of issues that had t been covered in daytime to before a we got Lucky because we discovered Early on that the usual idea of women a programming was a narrow sexist View. Id been the Host of a radio show and id seen what lights up the phones. We found that women were interested in a lot More than covered dishes and needlepoint. We televised a baby being born the first week we were on the air. We featured Jane Fonda and other people protesting the Vietnam War when we put a Gay Man on the air in the 1960s, we got irate mail from people who Abc Phil Donahue Between Diane Sawyer and or. Ruth offers his stars in Donahue the 25th anniversary. Were afraid their kids would a a catch being Gay. How dare we. These were issues that people cared about. The determining Factor is Quot will the woman in the fifth Row be moved to stand up and say something Quot and there a a lot that will get her to stand up. Q How has the talk show landscape changed since you began ? Ai its a much busier Street. Our sales people and others probably arc More aware of How yesterdays show did in the overnight ratings. You have to tap dance faster. The program has to be compelling right from the beginning. Viewers Are out there with a Remote control and they can Zap you like that. Q docs that put you under More pressure to put on sensational topics like male strippers Canyon As you did in the past to cite one example put israeli defense minister Ariel Sharon on the air for an hour a you do have to do More to Call attention to yourself in this environment. But i think we have More variation in our topics than any other daytime talk show and we re proud of that. We go from male strippers to presidential candidates to Nelson Man Dola Sharon both sides of the abortion debate. You Cahnt do the front Page of the Wall Street journal every Day and you can to do a a ainu to it awful topics a Friendly fire in the Gulf War or Somalia a five Days a week because people wont watch it.,but it is also True that people wont watch male strippers five Days a week either. Q Why do people come on your show and others to talk about the most intimate details of their lives telling you and the to audience something they might not Tell their Best Friend a i think its mostly to help other people. If for example they were abused As a child and have walked around with a Brick in their Chest keeping this dark secret and they finally Are healed through therapy they May want to say to others Quot done to carry this Brick in your Chest a you can  goes downhill by Frazier Moore a television writer a startling thing comes to Light on Phil Donahue a Silver anniversary extravaganza. Donahue reveals the existence of a Cartel of talk show hosts. He discloses How at secret meetings he Doles out topics a sock hops a do nudists have them a a a indians who Are not givers to each of his colleagues to ensure no show overlaps with another. Conspiracy collusion no comedy. Sort of. Geraldo Oprah Sally Maury Faith Jenny Montel and newcomer Jerry Springer gather with Phil in this skit saluting Donahue a lofty status in the talk show firmament. Indeed their secret password is a without Phil i  even be  How True despite the lameness of the sketch. But that a the Way it goes for most of the two hours. However warranted this tribute to Phil May be its still full of it. Donahue the 25th anniversary is a wilfully formulaic exercise a an Over scripted variety show greatest hits collection and prolonged Valentine. Donahue for a Quarter Century so Fleet of foot bounding up and Down the aisles for his daytime multitudes sort of Steps in it Here As do those on hand to pay him Well deserved homage. Around All this by the numbers Foobar a the special manages to work in clips from Donahue a almost 6,000 shows. But not nearly enough. And too much of everything else. November 22. 1992 sunday a Page 11